The Israeli kid, who has many Armenian friends who tell him about these things, quickly responds to the Armenian genocide being false, by claiming its real and claiming a Turkish friend of mine should post evidence to prove these events were not proof of a genocide:
The Response
the labor battalions under (under enver pasha)
Correction, you mean Halil Pasha's Labor Battalion, and you're referring to the massacre of Armenian laborers that Vice-Consul Scheubner-Richter claims, who was never there to witness such things anyway from his office in Germany.
Quote by General Halil (Kut), the uncle of War Minister Enver, ordered "the massacre of his Armenian [labor] battalions." You must have read the "Enver" part. Reported by Vice-Consul Scheubner-Richter.
Van
Van Rebellion Book
Theres a whole book on this issue, that I probably cannot explain best. But I'll give it a shot. The book is written by Dr. Justin McCarthy a real American historian who looks at things objectively.
Ok so, in Van, there was a rebellion. The Armenians claim (information from Wikipedia) that an Ottoman commander came by, and asked from Van, 4000 men for conscription, and the Armenians replied that they would only give 500 and the rest in "conscription fees". Then the Ottoman commander got mad and said he would massacre everyone there, and so a rebellion started.
To me this sounds far-fetched, simply because, how would Armenians already be prepared to rebel instantly as soon as the Ottoman commander said this? Did they predict the future and guess what he would say? The Ottoman commander wasn't alone according to Armenians, he had an army with him already. If this story was true, then it would be an Armenian massacre, with no survivors. But instead it was a rebellion, where people from both sides died.
The reality is, it wasn't like this, it was like this:
In October 1914, Army intelligence of the Ottomans reported to commanders that Armenian rebels were moving into cities like Van and others, with large amounts of weapons. It was mainly ignored hoping the problem would go away itself. In April 14, 1915, the Armenians created a large rebellion in a nationalistic movement called Dhrizny, and the Ottomans quickly rushed Jandarme forces into the region to crush the rebellion. At this time, Russian army made its offensive into the region along with Armenian army divisions. Armenians were slaughtered, mostly by regional Kurds (for their loot; this is basically the Wild Wild East), Circassians, and sometimes Turks seeking revenge for Armenian massacres. The Russians finally were able to lift the siege to Van, and they led their rebellion with Armenians who knew the lands guiding them, into other cities.
Enver Pasha ordered that 1 Turkish lira be given to anyone who captures an Armenian rebel, and he orders troops to back off the region to fight in the more vital war fronts. Instead he used the permanent Jandarme to fight in that area, while the Army itself withdrew.
Arrest and Deportation of Armenian notables
I don't know what you mean by notables. But if you're talking about April 24th 1915, thats when 2,345 Armenian committee rebel leaders were finally captured and hanged for treason. These were criminals. Some were exiled instead of hanged.
tehcir
The Relocation law clearly states that Armenians should be protected by armed Ottoman guards, and be given food, water, transport-animals, provided field-hospitals and other needs to make sure they survived the journey, and even with all the precautions taken place, and even though the United States did the same to the Cherokee, in which their reason was "We needed the land" it is still regarded as Armenians as the actual "genocide". In fact, Armenians that arrived in Syria were given housing. Some before leaving were given the option to place their children in a home they trust, for adoption, because a journey like this may be risky especially for small children. Of course, this is NOT an efficient way to commit mass genocide, so don't even go there. They spent a lot of money on this, to make sure the rebellion stopped, they had no intention to kill Armenians, because the Ottoman leadership knew that not all of them were guilty of rebellion, but its impossible to tell them apart.
- the armenians marched out of deir ez-zor and the surrounding dessert
There was no desert in Northern Syria or Eastern Turkey.
- the concentration camps under ?ükrü Kaya particularly Radjo, Katma, and Azaz and even MORE particular the mass burnings, drownings, and poisonings.
There is no concentration camps in Turkey, I think you're confusing the Holocaust with the Armenian genocide theory. Come to Turkey and start digging they don't exist, it's a myth created by propagandists to stir the emotions of Jews like yourself to support their cause no matter how false or their lack of evidence.
Mass burnings, drownings, poisonings, were also done to Turks by Armenian rebels, and so you cannot use a collective number of incidents and stamp the blame on the Ottoman government, each case is unique and we weren't there, witnesses testify the guiltiness of Turks, Armenians, and Kurds when they talk about these things, you cannot use that as proof of a genocide. That's not how the Holocaust was proven either, so I would expect YOU WOULD KNOW BETTER.
- The Special Organization (Te?kilat-? Mahsusa)
Just like the CIA, just like Mossad, every country has their espionage organization, and rumors will always circulate about all of them. None of them have been corroborated with real evidence. Unlike the Gestapo, which was widely documented by a wide variety of sources. >>>Again, similar propaganda by Armenians to incite emotions in Jews to support their cause by alluding to similarities of Holocaust, which don't even exist.<<<
Anyway, I find it funny that you list all these events and don't even go and discuss them with me, presenting them like as if they are the God-given-fact proving genocide. Unless you have specific archival documents that show the Ottoman leadership directly ordering the genocide of a people as a part or a whole, with correct ciphers and dates, your case would get thrown out in any court of law let alone a historical debate.
Some important reflection
As a Jewish person who has most likely read history books, because I know you are a smart person with an open-mind. I would assume you would know how the Holocaust was proven and can easily compare that with the Armenian genocide story and see what a false historical mis-description it is.
I admire your attention to details though Addis, because even Armenian propagandists like Peter Balakian in similar debates never talked about these things because of his fear of facing real evidence vs his lack of evidence, and thus he usually diverts the subject to "the suffering of the Armenians" or "The Denialist historians bribes from the government" (funny) or "[My Grandma suffered like this this this]", when there are thousands of stories like that by Turks as well.
Videos
Bernard Lewis Armenian Genocide rebuttal
Watch this video of Dr. Bernard Lewis, a Jewish-American historian, someone like you who pays attention to detail. Is he a "denialist" too?
And if you can spare some time, watch a couple documentary episodes, that are short. I mean you can't be objective if you don't hear both sides. And even if you don't believe in the Turkish side, maybe you'll find it entertaining then and show how strong willed you are in seeing proof and convincing yourself that you are right and historians are wrong.
Sari Gelin Documentary
In response to a comment about Kurds supporting Israel but hating Turkey
The PKK hates Israel, and loves Palestine for their "bravery", and actually learns their techniques of killing innocent soldiers or civilians. They have killed over 30,000 people in the last few decades in Turkey, many of whom are Kurds and Turks who were not involved in any wars.
Kurds on the other hand, support Israel, and they also support Turkey. Not all of them, there are sympathizers of PKK of course, just like there are sympathizers even today of Nazis, but again, preaching hate and terrorism is wrong. So there is much argument between them as well.
I have given you a lot of evidence, but if you guys spent half the time reading my posts instead of typing "wheres your evidence" we might actually learn something from each other. In fact, Armenians are suppose to be the ones proving their genocide, why do Turks have to always defend themselves against baseless accusations?
Again, I remind you, the Armenian genocide theory is as false as the Palestinian genocide theory. However, if you believe in the Armenian genocide theory, then you are also obligated to believe in the Palestinian genocide theory, otherwise you'd be a hypocrite who believes rebellion against civilians in one country is ok, while its not ok in another.
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Thanks for informing me this information guys!!!
Apparently the Israeli kid mentioned, was later found out to be an Armenian nationalist. He was pretending to be Israeli to give himself more credibility, but he later made the mistake of saying that the Palestinian genocide was real, which was a dead giveaway to Israelis.
Excellent information indeed. I can't believe there are actually Jews gullible enough to believe in the Armenian genocide, they must have completely slept in class when the Holocaust was talked about in great detail, or maybe it was only briefly mentioned to them. The Holocaust is a very detailed genocide of the Jewish people by the Nazi party.
Many people fail to see the relationships with Armenian genocide theory and the real Holocaust:
- There were no hate speeches in the Ottoman Empire against Armenians; There were in Nazi Germany.
- Armenians target Turks as a whole when the blame-train comes by, not differentiating between generations, and saying the Turks are just as guilty for denying the genocide. Jews blame Nazi Germany at the time, and the party leadership, and the followers who committed the genocide.
- Jews were identified by the Star of David to before the Holocaust so that the Nazis can identify them easily when the genocide comes and they were able to be racist towards Jews more easily. Armenians could not be identified unless you follow them into their church.
- Jews were separated into communities isolated into Ghettos. Armenians were not separated but some villages were known to be mostly Armenians.
- Jews were the continuous target of prejudice and racism by Germans which was well documented. While Armenians were never a target of hate for the 600 years they were ruled over, they ruled their own region with their own local government.
- Jews were hated and prejudiced against before the Nazi regime, Hitler acted on these age old prejudices, however there is no such history of that with Armenians and Turks.
- Jews did not rebel against the Nazis. Armenians rebelled many times before 1915, and even during 1890s when their rebel organizations first formed, before Armenians even died by any Turks.
- There were no Jewish generals, no Jewish soldiers, rebels, or rebel organizations that fought against the Nazis. In contrast, Armenian organizations, generals who committed many massacres for the Armenians, were abundant.
- Jews did not own weapons, they did not have mass cache storage of armaments. Armenians had thousands of arms, easily brought to the Ottoman Empire (since there is no way to border patrol the vast Ottoman Empire) by the British, French, and Russians who continuously incited Armenians to rebel. They had every right to, because they were at war with the Ottomans, it was the best British strategy "Divide and Conquer" which is more detailed as "Divide the people through language, nationalism, and religion and then Conquer them while they are fighting each other"
- Jews were exposed to methods of mass extermination ranging from Gas chambers to concentration camps. While certain Armenians claim that much of the genocide occurred when Ottomans forced them to relocate, and some Armenians claim that most of the massacres were committed by generals and governors of the Ottoman Empire! They can't even agree on how most of the Armenians even died. There are no concentration camps in Turkey, and you are welcomed by Turkish and a growing number of Western historians to come dig and find mass graves or camps belonging to Armenians (none found so far; although it's likely; but many Turkish mass graves were found indeed).
Holocaust and Armenian Genocide Compared
Holocaust and Armenian Genocide Compared